er sure I understand the value of some kind of stylesheet but I'd rather not have cnv's for the separation of inlets alx1: ... so i think you could do away with the _underscore_ <_hc> http://eds.org/~hans/template-12-2.png <_hc> another adjustment k looks good Nice, 12-2 i like. Glad to see the "icons" out. why is BANG, FLOAT, etc in capital letters? Hans and I are just fine-tuning, and I'm making a task for those changes for next meeting. <_hc> another small tweak <_hc> http://eds.org/~hans/template-12-2.png I think we're close to consensus!!! egad does it mean we're not voting on the template now ;-? alx1: i think that more [cnv] is ok as long as they are configurable by receive-symbol, but in template 12, the tall [cnv]'s height is dependent on the size of the text, so that's that much more work to do. to me it looks a bit like pd for babies, but i will not insist anymore on colors... <_hc> alx1: I think we are chosing, I think that's the point of the meeting <_hc> pueblo: you would like no color? bbogart: what do we do about this? mariuss_: i also think that inlet 0 LIST should be left out because it is a default behaviour of pd objects in general when the list-method is not defined. _hc, I can't see what's changed in the latest version you posted... matju: I agree with you on that list thing matju, Meaning all objects do that same thing? _hc, perhaps would be better, but I agree colors are good for linking relations to them <_hc> matju: hmm, I think if there is space, which in this case there is, it should be mentioned alx1: it's very littel bbogart: ... unless otherwise specified <_hc> pueblo: I think that the color should have some meaning to it, color catches your eye, so it is useful, like in the example patch, to show which object is the important one _hc: is pdpedia: float a link? alx1: the text for inlet 0 has more linespacing <_hc> mariuss_: yes k _hc: i don't think that "if there is space" is a good criterion for including or leaving out any information. _hc: good! <_hc> how about the link text? shoud it be the raw URL? just "pdpedia" or like "pdpedia: float (objectclass)" _hc: what happend to the 0 in the outlet canvas? _hc: i think that in the learning process, you need to learn once what's the default behaviour of list-method, and once you are used to it, it's just clutter, even if the help patch is small. <_hc> I took it out since there is only one outlet, but I suppose it could remian in there _hc: I think it shoud be a link starting with www <_hc> matju: I always forget such details, so I would like to be reminded <_hc> matju: not everyone has a memory as good as yours :D _hc: maybe you could be reminded by putting a link to the default behaviours help-patch in every help-patch _hc, I think colors should correspond to a global color coding scheme and not for catching eyes... I have to leave now, I will catch you later, bye everybody!! korayt, ciao _hc: please, with cream and cherry on top. <_hc> pueblo: right, the header color labels it as a help patch globally, the yellow marks something as important _hc color coding scheme meaning, object families, degrees of complexity in learning etc * korayt has quit ("Leaving") <_hc> korayt: bye, ttyl! I think time is running <_hc> pueblo: hmm, sounds interesting, do you want to sketch something up? _hc: memory is a matter of consistency and of understanding. if you learn more generic knowledge then you don't need to learn the equivalent specific knowledge. therefore you can focus on the specific knowledge that can't be generalised. The more things are made to fit together and be interrelated, the more you can remember. _hc I will develop more this idea, yes I think we should go with _hc's latest template I think we should go with _hc's latest template heh it is better than any other template I saw before we can change colours through stylesheets later... if we try to make everything perfect, we will never start working on the help patches Hans and I just are going to show a template of the "legend" idea, the colours are arbitrary and the "3" should be "2" <_hc> http://eds.org/~hans/template-legend.png The "legend" would be a separate patch that would be one click away from any reference if you forget the numbering. maybe the work "inlet(s)" would actually be a PDDP link to that patch. Outlet(s) alx1: if i document something that has eight outlets, does it mean that 8 unique outlet colours have to be specified in the pddp colour settings? matju, if we used colour coding, yes. how does one document variable number of inlets such as in [pack] ? I don't think you have to explain, what is clear... (numbers of outlets i mean documenting [pack] regardless of colors and stuff. I'm not so sure the colours on the [float]'s inlets and outlets are that important I'd rather discuss the rest of PDAP so the vote is no colour coding? alx1: which alexandre are you? the vote is no label for in and outlets mariuss_, castonguay, (right-click on my nick in xchat) HC and I are happy with these changes, so we're voting yes! all in favour? yup yup aalex, is quessy but he logged out this morning all apposed? I really think the templates look much better than the old ones thanks for the work!!! yes thanks for the work So thats the vote, we have a template!!!! <_hc> thanks for the contributions and feedback from everyone :D great. alex, you wanted to talk about grant stuff? yippie!!! <_hc> we should do a time elapse of the progress, it went thru many stages I would like to discuss the grant stuff later, maybe via mail? bbogart, yes, I have been following the discussions through email alx1, any questions ideas we need to talk about on here, or should we schedule a grant skype meeting? <_hc> let's have a quick discussion I agree with applying to both but would suggest calling first to see if that's a good idea maybe a grant skype meeting or ichat We should decide on the next PDDP meeting, I will not be able to do next week on IRC, but I could make a short skype meeting about the DLMC in the minutes, pueblo wasn't in the list <_hc> the problem with applying to both is that someone who's legal to work in the US needs to be the primary, and a given person can only be the primart on one app, though they can participate in multiple alx1, what?? yes she wasn't <_hc> so I am legal to work in the US, I think that marius might also qualify for the grant I met someone from the yucatan who can write in to support the aims of the project <_hc> but once we get the funds, we can pay others, AFAIK <_hc> alx1: cool and is looking for wkps and shows using pd alx1, oh yes we need to talk about those referecne letters the FDL is again in a hibernation period where they will not give grants I am definitely not allowed to work in the US at the moment <_hc> they key issue is how to people want to partocipate? $100k is quite a bit of money and Canadian Heritage deadlines seem like they just passed :-( nevertheless I think that bbogart's idea to frame a larger project and apply to different sources as needed is smart that way things will get done anyhow I mean 'as needed to realize components' <_hc> ben and I were talking about having most of the work divided up and funded by "task" or "subproject" <_hc> that would make it easy to include more people in the work I gotta get something to eat before catching the bus soon, so can we schedule a time for skype meeting? grant specifically. sure, thursday sometime? And a general PDDP meeting the week after (Oct 2nd)? how does one document variable number of inlets such as in [pack] ? <_hc> anothor thing about the grant, it really talks a lot of about read/write media literacy, teaching kids to understand media, and create media, but I think we should highlight that digital media always requires software, and we should also include programming literacy so that people can create their own software as well as use it matju, 0 1 2 n <_hc> I think it goes well with "the medium is the message", if we want to teach people to truly get their message out, we should also teach them how to define their mdeium bbogart, so you mean a skype meeting on the 25th? _hc these are good ideas, I would like to read what you are proposing alx1, yes, 10am my time would be fine. bbogart: where 0 1 2 are the minimal inlets, and n are all additional inlets documented together? <_hc> pueblo: well, we dont' ahve that written yet, and are looking for contributinos, ideas, feedback, etc. to make this a good app _hc: digital media... i learned to write digits before i ever used software _hc is this grant discussion posted somewhere? do we need to write a budget plan? matju, for pack for example I guess there would just be 0 and n and the comment would make it clear that n inlets are created based on creation arguments. <_hc> mariuss_: yes, we'll need to make a detailed budget bbogart, vancouver is -7 GMT? its 12:38pm now matju: i think ass "n" in the the canvas where there are numbers for the float example? s/ass/put/ <_hc> pueblo: hmm, I don't think we have a place for discussion yet, but there should be one, shall I start a wiki page? did you think about getting in touch with an organization like harvestworks? I don't mean harvestworks, but something LIKE ohh, bbogart said that already. There is a "funding ideas" page on the wiki, we could use that. I've been too busy to update it _hc: and punchcards were used long before there was any software to decode it. <_hc> mariuss_: we have been in touch with a number of orgs like harvestworks, including artengine, eyebeam, harvestworks, SAT, etc. about the dmlc? everyone good for the next IRC PDDP meeting to be on Oct 2nd at the same time as today? <_hc> we should prtobably have page devoted to this grant app or in general <_hc> bbogart: sounds good to me bbogart, yes <_hc> mariuss_: not about this grant in particular I think oct 2 is too far away bbogart: why 0 and n instead of just n ?... is that related to a recent mail on weird behaviour of [pack] ? matju, maybe to make a "hot" "cold" distinction stffn: we're not talking about that. we're talking about variable number of inlets, which doesn't apply to [float] 10am PDT (one hour before the regular PDDP meetings) for sypke about DMLC on Sept 25th? stffn: or i misunderstood you yes bbogart: yes bbogart, that's 15h00 GMT? <_hc> mariuss_: we'll need to talk before that too, but I think it's a good time for a group check-in hang on, found this http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/north-america/canada/british-columbia/vancouver/time.htm bbogart: oh duh. sorry. of course, hot vs cold is important to document separately. _hc, yes, I think we should meet soon and talk about more pdpedia bbogart: (momentary lapse of reason) matju: i know. my way of explaining my self used float, which was a doable example. 18GMT skype means audio chat? if we are only 4 persons, than we could also use ichat with video * errordeveloper (n=errordev@78.86.1.110) has joined #dataflow mariuss_, linux here ;) alx1: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ <_hc> also, we don't always need to talk in groups, we can talk to each other as well, and that's often quite a bit easier _hc, for sure, the schedule meeting can be an update matju: and the way i used the float as example was to point to the canvas things with the numbers in that sections the inlets. makes sense, i hope. Ok I have to leave now, I call this meeting adjourned until the next one. I'll post the wiki stuff as soon as I can. but it may be a while. I think it is annoying that there is always some other discussiion going on in the groupchat we can fine tune the DMLC meeting over email. email: yes, skype: need your names! i am mschebella bye * mariuss_ (n=marius@ool-4571ab62.dyn.optonline.net) has left #dataflow <_hc> on Skype, I am purecanesugar i missed the vote as i was reading the (irc) log. it was about the 12-2 template, right? yup what was the legend template about? i missed that too. sorry. stffn: it was about the 11, 12, 12-2, ms1 and 9_a templates. Ok, I'm off. Thanks all for the effort I can't meet on skype (i'm on linux on a mac ppc) But I would like to be in the loop for the grant proposal too! seeya bbogart: bon appetit bbogart, buen apetito pueblo : me too if I can give a hand ...